engine on ebay

markrc45 · Post by **markrc45** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:41 pm

well fellow members what do you reckon to this beauty

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC45-tony-sco ... 583wt_1141

this must be one of the rarest 45 engines out there as well as the most over priced.... special parts inc...
5 speed box ...

....(certain I can find six gears in all my 45s)

ti spark plugs???

its got a list as long as your arm with work done on it but still only got standard pistons

I am thinking this is the engine sold in parts about 12 months ago... which needed (slight attention) then according to the seller.. due to a blow up...

roger · Post by **roger** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:38 pm

‘Interesting’ listing.

If it's been stroked (perhaps up to somewhere around 800cc) I believe (memory permitting) it would be similar to the Mark Johns RC45 raced in the IOM (memory permitting again, the MJ '45 was given the 'handle “Hurricane”').

Anyway, in the listing it does say standard... machined... pistons; whatever "machined" relative to standard actually means.

Not sure about the "gas flowed crank cases" (unless it could be a 'part-time two stroke' – sorry, just couldn’t resist making that comment).

Yes, 5 speed box! Mine too, and 4, 3, 2, 1, 6 (but not in that order)

What about the "very trick extra right hand gear shaft", that's certainly intriguing – maybe to suit someone needing a thumb operated rear brake with rhs gear change facility?

The (hoped for) price does seem (to me) to be in the realms of ‘speculative adventure’, particularly if…

“This is a HRC KIT race engine built by Tony Scott, it has been refreshed with a lot of new parts and not even used once since”… but the refresh has been subsequent to the TS build - and not by TS.

But, all of that said, who knows the actual reality – someone (or several) must know - and I, for one, would certainly like my inevitable curiosity satisfied; so it’s over to you guys, and especially the current newest registered user = britten43.

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:38 am

To my knowledge (which I admit is not 100%, 100% of the time) there's nothing recorded for any Castrol Honda or Honda Britain RC45 being over and above the standard cubic capacity for the engine. If that's entirely the case, then I wouldn't expect any engine relating to Joey Dunlop to have been stroked, or otherwise increased in capacity.

The only bike I personally know of to have had a capacity increase (I believe via stroking) is the Mark Johns Motors one mentioned.

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:06 pm

Hello Mark.

I'll defer to your knowledge on how the 800(?) engines 'went'.

I Believe the MJM 'Hurricane' ended up in the possession of Gordon Bisson (Jersey) where it was used in hill climb competitions. I understand the bike was sold (a couple of years,or so, ago) to one Stuart Newton*. Whether the bike retained its increased capacity I've no idea.

*Also (previous to the ex-Bisson acquisition) Stuart Newton had a rather dilapidated '45 (with some kit parts fixed) for sale. I recollect making an offer on it, which was rejected - I was subsequently given info to the effect that it was (considered to be) an ex-Tillston bike (which was nonsense).

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:44 pm

Still at £8,750, with one offer made - but declined.

Under the circumstances, I’m contemplating breaking one of my race bikes and offering the parts to britten43 at prices commensurate with that on the motor up for auction. That way I reckon I should be able to raise enough cash to purchase 3 or 4 replacement bikes!

Well, you’ve got to admit, it’s a thought.

roger · Post by **roger** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:30 pm

With regard to what Mick45 wrote:

Hear, hear.

roger · Post by **roger** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:03 am

Hello britten43.

Just a bit of clarification would be helpful (in dissipating healthy scepticism).

In the order of your post:

As (some of) the engine was used in the TT in the past with a long stroke set-up, then am I right in presuming that it has never been a Castrol Honda, or Honda Britain, engine?

I believe you’re saying that someone in the UK, who owns one of Joey Dunlop’s “factory” RC45’s, sold you the engine. As I know the whereabouts of a couple of formally documented ex-Castrol Honda (Britain) RC45’s, I’m naturally curious to know which of JD’s actual RC45’s is owned by the seller of the engine you have?

I understand the need to vent 4 stroke crank-cases (especially where down-stroke swept volume is not counteracted by up-stroke) to relieve (HP sapping) crank-case pressure, but I’ve always regarded “porting” as peculiar to 2 strokes (hence my earlier ‘comment’).

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:40 am

Hello Alasdair, and thanks for the example ZXR info. It just goes to show how apparently small things can, relatively, mean a lot.

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:59 am

Hello britten43.

I see the engine, now on eBay under auction, has had a few bids placed… but the description still says “Standard 5 speed box” and “A very trick extra right hand gear change shaft”… which all seems quite puzzling (to me). However, a thought has occurred:

Is it possible that in order for the 'very trick' extra right hand gear change shaft to be in place, the 6th gear (as per standard) has had to be omitted from the gear-box?

Just curiosity.

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:50 am

There are still a lot more questions than answers as far as I’m concerned – and I have to say that my curiosity, particularly as to the gear-box, remains unsatisfied… because whatever happens to be the detailed truth about this aspect, it might indicate the true reality about other aspects of the engine.

So, as far as the gear-box is concerned, (for me) it’s like this:

If I had a wholly new 5 gear cluster cut, with each new gear-pair in the cluster having unique ratios (which no standard gear-pair actually had) I’d certainly not link “5” and “standard” when describing such a gear-box.

As “5” and “standard” have been used in the description my curiosity has (as ever) driven me to find a logical, thus, plausible explanation – and this is it:

Let’s say that, for whatever reason, 1st gear has been removed… such that the standard 2nd (in a 6 speed box) has now become 1st… and standard 3rd now = 2……….. up to standard 6th now = 5th. That would rationally (ratio…nally) explain “it has a high first gear, and the others are slightly higher than the equivalent 6 speed road box, i.e., ‘new 1st is higher than old 1st’, and so on up to new 5th (top) being higher than old 5th.

Could I have ‘hit the nail on the head?

The other thing I find ‘interesting’ in the description, etc., is the use of certain words and phrases, e.g., Tony Scott, Isle of Man TT, Joey Dunlops HRC RC45 factory race bike, this is a HRC KIT race engine… It all seems (to me) to be using words and phrases for the sole purpose of adding value through intimating ‘special uniqueness’.

I’m sorry to be so ‘pointing’, but I do wonder whether the engine would have far less (rather than more) value for whatever are its true characteristics and history.

I know... I’m a pain, simply cannot refrain, and sorry again, but there it is.

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:49 pm

If the 6th (top) gear was removed, then 5th would become top gear and so (all other things remaining equal) the engine would be even more prone to over-reving.

But britten43 has (I think) already discounted the standard 6th gear having been removed, and has also explained that…

“it has a high first gear and the others are slightly higher than the equivelent 6 speed road box”

Removing 1st gear means the above statement would describe the remaining 5 gears, in so far as what used to be the standard 2nd gear has become a higher first gear, and so on.

Anyway, it’s all still rather intriguing – particularly 5 gears when every ’45 ever, i.e., road and race variant, always had (as far as I know) 6 speed gear-boxes.

To my mind the most plausible scenario is removal (loss) of the standard 1st gear; but, if I’m correct, why? There must be a reason!

Maybe britten43 could enlighten and also, perhaps, ‘shoot my conjecture down in flames’.

Regards,

Roger.

roger · Post by **roger** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:39 pm

As per markrc45, I'd like to know too; and maybe the buyer could clear-up a few of the apparent 'peculiarities' relating to said engine.

Or if no force-v4 member did make the purchase, do any of you know who did buy it?

Tell me myob if you like, I'd not be offended.

Regards,

Roger.