Simply put OC is Owner's Choice and DC is Designer's Choice...roger wrote: With regard to “OC” and “DC”… do you mean Obsessive Compulsive and
Data Collection… in which case, I have to admit that I can tend towards ‘sufferance’ of OCDC.
Regards,
Roger.
who and why
Moderators: StephenRC45, Dave45
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Busy Little Shop
- Advanced Member
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- Location: California USA
Re: who and why
who and why
Yes, Larry, the last 3 digits of the chassis numbers do apparently repeat, so it seems that when talking chassis numbers the entire number, as a whole, needs to be considered.
Thanks for clearing-up the #009 USA vs Germany number, as that corrects me on my earlier (Japan to USA to Germany export route) misconception.
But back to the central issue of the discussion, i.e., the number 2000065 on markRC45’s exhaust pipe.
Given that the number appears, to all intents and purposes, to be a chassis number, maybe there are people who have knowledge of the bike to which the number belongs.
Now as the pipe is (presumably) a race pipe (for who would mark a standard pipe?!), I think it fair to suppose that it may be from a race bike.
As the pipe is in the UK then it’s possible it may always have been. Putting the two suppositions together raises the prospect that 2000065 is the number of a UK race bike.
Clearly, the owner of any bike at all may not be prepared to divulge a chassis number (for obvious reasons). So all we need now is for someone with knowledge/records of UK race bikes, and their chassis numbers, to divulge any information they may have on 2000065.
Some time ago, I was contacted (by telephone) by someone named Dennis Willeys who, apparently, was ex-Honda Louth. During the conversation I was informed by Mr. Willeys that he held records on the ex-Castrol Honda & Honda Britain race RC45's… maybe, just maybe, Mr. Willey’s can throw some light on the number. Does anyone know him, or has anyone ever been in contact with him?
Regards,
Roger.
Thanks for clearing-up the #009 USA vs Germany number, as that corrects me on my earlier (Japan to USA to Germany export route) misconception.
But back to the central issue of the discussion, i.e., the number 2000065 on markRC45’s exhaust pipe.
Given that the number appears, to all intents and purposes, to be a chassis number, maybe there are people who have knowledge of the bike to which the number belongs.
Now as the pipe is (presumably) a race pipe (for who would mark a standard pipe?!), I think it fair to suppose that it may be from a race bike.
As the pipe is in the UK then it’s possible it may always have been. Putting the two suppositions together raises the prospect that 2000065 is the number of a UK race bike.
Clearly, the owner of any bike at all may not be prepared to divulge a chassis number (for obvious reasons). So all we need now is for someone with knowledge/records of UK race bikes, and their chassis numbers, to divulge any information they may have on 2000065.
Some time ago, I was contacted (by telephone) by someone named Dennis Willeys who, apparently, was ex-Honda Louth. During the conversation I was informed by Mr. Willeys that he held records on the ex-Castrol Honda & Honda Britain race RC45's… maybe, just maybe, Mr. Willey’s can throw some light on the number. Does anyone know him, or has anyone ever been in contact with him?
Regards,
Roger.
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Busy Little Shop
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:07 am
- Location: California USA
Re: who and why
You're welcome Roger... has it also cleared up the PM???roger wrote:
Thanks for clearing-up the #009 USA vs Germany number, as that corrects me on my earlier (Japan to USA to Germany export route) misconception.
Regards,
Roger.
who and why
@Larry.
Yes Larry it has, and thanks once again.
Regards,
Roger.
Yes Larry it has, and thanks once again.
Regards,
Roger.
chassis number
@Larry
Larry, I dont know how many times over the years I have told you but you seem to refuse to listen. My chassis number DOES NOT start with a 2, it is 000055, I sent you a pm explaining the 0, 1 or 2 at the beginning of the frame number. But I'll repeat here.
Frame numbers starting with 0 are pre order bikes, ie, ordered in 1993, frames starting with a "1" are JDM (JAPANES DOMESTIC) and frames with a "2" are export models. So it is quite likely someone will have a 94 model starting with a "0" as the main Honda importer for that country pre ordered for 1994.
But for the last time Larry my bike frame number does not start with a "2", even though I am from down under we can fucking read!
Larry, I dont know how many times over the years I have told you but you seem to refuse to listen. My chassis number DOES NOT start with a 2, it is 000055, I sent you a pm explaining the 0, 1 or 2 at the beginning of the frame number. But I'll repeat here.
Frame numbers starting with 0 are pre order bikes, ie, ordered in 1993, frames starting with a "1" are JDM (JAPANES DOMESTIC) and frames with a "2" are export models. So it is quite likely someone will have a 94 model starting with a "0" as the main Honda importer for that country pre ordered for 1994.
But for the last time Larry my bike frame number does not start with a "2", even though I am from down under we can fucking read!
who and why
Ok then guys, so 2000065 would indicate an export model. I’m going to assume exported to the UK, in which case (using previous logic) a bike with a race exhaust pipe (system) so possibly an RC45 becoming a race bike.
I’m still deeply curious (nothing new there) about the ‘whole affair’.
So, to markrc45, as you know Dennis (given your own RC45), you must be on good terms with him (full respect to Dennis given his record), would you ask him if he has (or hasn’t) any info (at all) on RC45 chassis number 2000065?
Mark, your help and consideration towards all of the members would clearly aid not only yourself, by answering “anyone got any ideas who or why you would bother putting the chassis number on the exhaust?”, but it would also help the rest of us in establishing a bit more about a specific RC45, a model we’re all so (quite rightly) smitten by.
Regards,
Roger.
I’m still deeply curious (nothing new there) about the ‘whole affair’.
So, to markrc45, as you know Dennis (given your own RC45), you must be on good terms with him (full respect to Dennis given his record), would you ask him if he has (or hasn’t) any info (at all) on RC45 chassis number 2000065?
Mark, your help and consideration towards all of the members would clearly aid not only yourself, by answering “anyone got any ideas who or why you would bother putting the chassis number on the exhaust?”, but it would also help the rest of us in establishing a bit more about a specific RC45, a model we’re all so (quite rightly) smitten by.
Regards,
Roger.
who and why
Hello Mark, worth a try anyway.
When Dennis contacted me, he said he might be able to identify a couple of my bikes from their chassis numbers, so he suggested I declare them so that he could check his records. As the numbers weren’t committed to memory I agreed to email him, which I did with one of the numbers (in fact several emails passed between us).
The upshot is that Dennis advised the number I’d given wasn’t in his records, which I found rather strange as the “formal documentation” I had (let alone the historical trace and time-line) clearly “proves” the bike I’d given the chassis number for was an ex-Castrol Honda/Britain Race bike (discounting all of the identifiable parts that came with it).
I concluded that perhaps it wasn’t surprising for Dennis not to have comprehensive records (and to for him to have either incomplete or unreliable records) as this happens all the time. But, it made declaration of my other chassis number unnecessary; a pity really, as it would have been nice to know that my own records were, yet again, backed-up.
Regards,
Roger.
When Dennis contacted me, he said he might be able to identify a couple of my bikes from their chassis numbers, so he suggested I declare them so that he could check his records. As the numbers weren’t committed to memory I agreed to email him, which I did with one of the numbers (in fact several emails passed between us).
The upshot is that Dennis advised the number I’d given wasn’t in his records, which I found rather strange as the “formal documentation” I had (let alone the historical trace and time-line) clearly “proves” the bike I’d given the chassis number for was an ex-Castrol Honda/Britain Race bike (discounting all of the identifiable parts that came with it).
I concluded that perhaps it wasn’t surprising for Dennis not to have comprehensive records (and to for him to have either incomplete or unreliable records) as this happens all the time. But, it made declaration of my other chassis number unnecessary; a pity really, as it would have been nice to know that my own records were, yet again, backed-up.
Regards,
Roger.
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Busy Little Shop
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:07 am
- Location: California USA
Re: chassis number
Sorry for the oversight Jamie... your prize has been listed in my recordsJamiec_c wrote:@Larry
Larry, I dont know how many times over the years I have told you but you seem to refuse to listen. My chassis number DOES NOT start with a 2, it is 000055, I sent you a pm explaining the 0, 1 or 2 at the beginning of the frame number. But I'll repeat here.
Frame numbers starting with 0 are pre order bikes, ie, ordered in 1993, frames starting with a "1" are JDM (JAPANES DOMESTIC) and frames with a "2" are export models. So it is quite likely someone will have a 94 model starting with a "0" as the main Honda importer for that country pre ordered for 1994.
But for the last time Larry my bike frame number does not start with a "2", even though I am from down under we can fucking read!
as balls 55 and no 2 for years now... thanks for pointing out my error...
who and why
As far as I’m aware, 2000127 – 2000402 (276 off) were UK 1994 (issue) chassis numbers/bikes. The UK engine numbers issued for the same period were 2000153 – 2000453 (300 off). The increased number of engines presumably being spares to go with bikes that were earmarked for racing.
Along with complete bikes having factory numbered chassis, spare (blank) chassis would also have been issued - to be primarily taken-up by race teams. If such spare chassis were ultimately employed in the replacement of damaged items then they should (theoretically) have been stamped with the number on the chassis being replaced; but this may not have always occurred – because... what does it matter for a race bike!
In addition, it’s almost certain that blank chassis were used to form the basis of complete, new, and extra, race bikes - particularly as the model began to ‘prove itself in service’. Some of these extra bikes may not have been numbered (as they weren’t being used to replace anything – and again, what does it matter for a race bike); or such 'extras' may have been stamped with ‘peculiar’ race team numbers bearing no (or little) resemblance to ‘proper’ RC45 chassis numbers.
Thus, it's understood that the creation of several race bikes occurred around bare (un-numbered/peculiarly numbered) chassis (throughout the RC45 production period). Which is why, with ex-race bikes, a historical, evidentiary, time-line is all important
Given the above, determining the overall 'production' history of the marque en-masse woud be akin to 'nailing down an amoeba'.
Regards,
Roger.
Along with complete bikes having factory numbered chassis, spare (blank) chassis would also have been issued - to be primarily taken-up by race teams. If such spare chassis were ultimately employed in the replacement of damaged items then they should (theoretically) have been stamped with the number on the chassis being replaced; but this may not have always occurred – because... what does it matter for a race bike!
In addition, it’s almost certain that blank chassis were used to form the basis of complete, new, and extra, race bikes - particularly as the model began to ‘prove itself in service’. Some of these extra bikes may not have been numbered (as they weren’t being used to replace anything – and again, what does it matter for a race bike); or such 'extras' may have been stamped with ‘peculiar’ race team numbers bearing no (or little) resemblance to ‘proper’ RC45 chassis numbers.
Thus, it's understood that the creation of several race bikes occurred around bare (un-numbered/peculiarly numbered) chassis (throughout the RC45 production period). Which is why, with ex-race bikes, a historical, evidentiary, time-line is all important
Given the above, determining the overall 'production' history of the marque en-masse woud be akin to 'nailing down an amoeba'.
Regards,
Roger.
who and why
Addendum:
Re: 2000065.
2000068 - 2000300, is understood to be the 1994 European Direct tranche of chassis numbers, whilst the engine numbers for the same period are (apparently) 2000090 - 2000326.
The only other 20000# numbers that I'm aware of are:
2000041, one only 1994 chassis number issued to the Netherlands; along with one only engine number, i.e., 2000056 (have the last two digits of this engine number been transposed on Mark's ex-pipe?).
All in all, 2000065 seems to remain a mystery number (but, as Mulder would say, 'the truth is out there').
Regards (again),
Roger.
Re: 2000065.
2000068 - 2000300, is understood to be the 1994 European Direct tranche of chassis numbers, whilst the engine numbers for the same period are (apparently) 2000090 - 2000326.
The only other 20000# numbers that I'm aware of are:
2000041, one only 1994 chassis number issued to the Netherlands; along with one only engine number, i.e., 2000056 (have the last two digits of this engine number been transposed on Mark's ex-pipe?).
All in all, 2000065 seems to remain a mystery number (but, as Mulder would say, 'the truth is out there').
Regards (again),
Roger.
frame numbers
There were only a handful of 45's officially imported into Australia, they were all pre 1994 ordered so have 0000xxx frame numbers, 3 of those bikes were earmarked for racing, 2 which did the majority of the racing used by Kirk Mcarthy, Anthony Gobert then Greg Moss and Shaun Giles, the third bike(which recently was up for sale) was used as a backup, these 3 race bikes were numbered frames.
who and why
…. This is a real long shot/stretch… but… there is (was?) a Dutch RC45 owner by the name (I recollect) of Rob Lindemanns.
So what?
Well, I know that Rob was involved in the production/sale of an RC45 after-market exhaust system, one of which (I believe) he fitted to his own bike, so:
1: Was it Rob’s bike that was the only Dutch one (hence that with chassis number 2000041 and engine number 2000056)?
2: Before Rob becoming involved in the production/sale of RC45 after-market exhaust systems and fitting one of same to his own bike, was the replaced system marked with ‘the only Dutch engine number’, but with the last two digits erroneously transposed?
3: Having fitted one of his own product exhaust systems to his bike, did Rob subsequently sell the previously fitted system (marked with 'the erroneous engine number')?
4: Did markrc45 ultimately become the owner of the ex-Rob Lindemanns (erroneously numbered) exhaust system?
I think there’s some logic to the above, but that doesn’t mean it’s correct.
Having said that 2000065 doesn’t appear to be a number issued by the Honda factory for any of the 20000## (Netherlands or European Direct) engine or chassis issue numbers – and I understand that the 20000## chassis and engine numbers were only issued to the Netherlands and the European Direct bikes.
This is becoming like the search for the Higgs Boson!
Regards,
Roger.
So what?
Well, I know that Rob was involved in the production/sale of an RC45 after-market exhaust system, one of which (I believe) he fitted to his own bike, so:
1: Was it Rob’s bike that was the only Dutch one (hence that with chassis number 2000041 and engine number 2000056)?
2: Before Rob becoming involved in the production/sale of RC45 after-market exhaust systems and fitting one of same to his own bike, was the replaced system marked with ‘the only Dutch engine number’, but with the last two digits erroneously transposed?
3: Having fitted one of his own product exhaust systems to his bike, did Rob subsequently sell the previously fitted system (marked with 'the erroneous engine number')?
4: Did markrc45 ultimately become the owner of the ex-Rob Lindemanns (erroneously numbered) exhaust system?
I think there’s some logic to the above, but that doesn’t mean it’s correct.
Having said that 2000065 doesn’t appear to be a number issued by the Honda factory for any of the 20000## (Netherlands or European Direct) engine or chassis issue numbers – and I understand that the 20000## chassis and engine numbers were only issued to the Netherlands and the European Direct bikes.
This is becoming like the search for the Higgs Boson!
Regards,
Roger.
who and why
I could have said… this is becoming like the search for Tutankhamun’s tomb; in which case, maybe... ‘this is becoming like the search, as was, for Tut-Ankh-Amun’s tomb’, would have been less ambiguous.
Yes Larry, I know that the Higgs Boson has (supposedly) been ‘found’… but only with ‘a high degree of probability’, as at the (quantum) scale nothing is ever certain… so the Higgs Boson ‘discovery’ could very well be that of just a very small pencil!! (or anything else). Btw, ‘proper’ Physists don’t employ the term ‘God particle’ for the HB… as the term is just a catchy lay-person and (as far as I’m concerned) rather nauseating ‘media hype’ phrase. Anyway, the ‘puzzle’ remains incomplete even with the recent ‘discovery’. Incidentally, there was also recently a suggestion that Neutrino’s could exceed C (the speed of light). If that is true it would certainly throw a ‘spanner in the works’ – any thoughts?
I suspect you’re quite right Larry, in so far as markrc45’s ex-pipe is in stainless steel, and being of a material which has mass then it will doubtless have ‘a few HB’s skulking about within it’.
Onward.
Larry, if you read my post again (perhaps and with respect a bit more carefully?!) I think you’ll ‘twig’ to what I’ve put, i.e., that the exhaust pipe fitted prior to Rod’s own Titanium type is what I’ve suggested could have been erroneously(?) marked (by who-so-ever).
Anyway, thanks for the info on Rob Lindemanns (I’ve purchased from him in the past and I think I’ve got his family name right). Also thanks for the pics of your very own good works.
Regards,
Roger.
Yes Larry, I know that the Higgs Boson has (supposedly) been ‘found’… but only with ‘a high degree of probability’, as at the (quantum) scale nothing is ever certain… so the Higgs Boson ‘discovery’ could very well be that of just a very small pencil!! (or anything else). Btw, ‘proper’ Physists don’t employ the term ‘God particle’ for the HB… as the term is just a catchy lay-person and (as far as I’m concerned) rather nauseating ‘media hype’ phrase. Anyway, the ‘puzzle’ remains incomplete even with the recent ‘discovery’. Incidentally, there was also recently a suggestion that Neutrino’s could exceed C (the speed of light). If that is true it would certainly throw a ‘spanner in the works’ – any thoughts?
I suspect you’re quite right Larry, in so far as markrc45’s ex-pipe is in stainless steel, and being of a material which has mass then it will doubtless have ‘a few HB’s skulking about within it’.
Onward.
Larry, if you read my post again (perhaps and with respect a bit more carefully?!) I think you’ll ‘twig’ to what I’ve put, i.e., that the exhaust pipe fitted prior to Rod’s own Titanium type is what I’ve suggested could have been erroneously(?) marked (by who-so-ever).
Anyway, thanks for the info on Rob Lindemanns (I’ve purchased from him in the past and I think I’ve got his family name right). Also thanks for the pics of your very own good works.
Regards,
Roger.